Summary of Oral History Interview by OurStory Scotland

Interviewee: Monte Hennegin

Interviewers: Jaime Valentine and Liam O'Driscoll

Place of Interview: Bridge of Allan

Date of Interview: 23 February 2005

Summariser: Sarah Cowie

Accession no. AA004

MonteHennegin1a

00:00 Monte Hennegin [MH] born Edinburgh 1923, grew up South Africa, returned to UK forty years ago, living in Scotland past sixteen years, now aged eighty-two. Describes earliest memory about incident when girl’s body aroused him, mother’s reprimand made him feel guilty: this he believes may have led to his homosexuality.

03:21 Stories about his fascination with man’s body when aged about ten years. Family moved about, first six years in Cape Town, sixth birthday in hospital with scarlet fever, at ten years went to Johannesburg. By thirteen had two friends: Colin and Cunningham with whom he had frequent sex.

06:30 First began to be called ‘queer’ when joined the forces. MH’s school: King Edward Seventh Government School. Memory of prefect he had crush on. 1939 in Cape Town attended technical college, 1940-41 at boarding school, Paarl Boys’ High School, to study harder for matriculation. Story about smoking in garden and having sex in shed, about sexual play in bed with friend Darby on Sunday afternoons: other boys laughed. Halcyon days as said in MH’s poem ‘The Well’. Memory of wrestling with boy on lawn at home. Reflects how highly sexed he was when young but no strong sex drive later in life. Reasons why hardly ever bullied: occasionally bullied for not being sporty, MH responded by looking down his nose at them; was told he was a pansy because wouldn’t fight, so had a fight, and afterwards was left alone.

15:13 Never got involved with girls, not interested. No pressure on MH from other boys. Played accordion from young age, girls loved his playing. About friend Jimmy Adams, grew up in circus, parents trapeze artists, how MH learnt acrobatics, skating and trapeze work from him.

17:37 MH joined up to go to war in 1942, following in father’s footsteps, father ill at time. Describes male nudist beach in Cape Town called Bachelor’s Cove. Story about way he played doctors when small boy. Can’t remember talking about his sexual activity. About nude bathing during war on North African coast.

25:47 Sexuality was more doing than speaking about it. Story about meeting Australian in the mess in the military camp in Cairo: MH was invited to go into Cairo, and was taken to the first completely gay pub he’d ever been in. There he met another Australian, and they looked for hotel room: found they were being watched, so looked for other place. Gay language at time in South Africa was called Egyptian, and in UK was called Polari, popularised by Kenneth Williams and Hugh Paddick.

[Ends 30:46]

MonteHennegin1b

00:00 Stories about discovering meaning of ‘queer’, and alternative terms. About first longer-term relationship in Johannesburg after return from war. Great gay society in Johannesburg. Describes bars at that time: Carlton Hotel. It was known what was going on: seemed very open. Difficult to tell difference between gay and straight bars because women not allowed in bars.

08:13 Describes ways he recognised if another man sexually interested in him, e.g. lingering look, but sometimes you could make a mistake, as with Keith, though later they became close friends. Keith was in sexual relationship with Winnie, MH’s cashier when he was theatre manager in Salisbury, Rhodesia: she’d had gay husband and so understood. Keith, Winnie and MH went about together: Keith was bisexual and slept with both.

11:42 Back in South Africa after the war, MH worked in films. Got a job as theatre manager and was sent to Rhodesia, where he met Keith. MH also doing ballet, having passed examinations at Royal Academy of Dance. Three boys in the ballet, all gay. Stories about dancers; others included entertainer, broadcaster, policeman: ‘a complete circle of queers’ in Salisbury, knew each other, all single.

15:17 No pressure on MH to get married, but did so. About MH’s marriage, big mistake of his life, lasted three years until wife’s discovery he was gay: quick exit from South Africa. People in village had taken it for granted they would get married, so got caught up in it. Wedding in Nederduitse Gereformeerde Kerk [Dutch Reformed Church] with best woman instead of best man. Wife walked in on MH drunk and making love: end of family, made quick exit. Doesn’t know if still married or divorced. Through that, MH got away and had a happy life.

18:29 Joined Merchant Navy, mentions he’s writing poem about three phases of his life: as seaman, as actor, as musician. Describes how he left on Dutch ship the Rijswojk, worked as ship’s guard in Durban, describes how he stowed away on Rijswojk’s second voyage, about the journey, how the captain treated him, taken on as deck hand, how he obtained necessary papers: no problem as born in Edinburgh. Arrival in UK 1958.

25:53 Recap about work in Johannesburg after war. How during war in Europe he kept everyone cheerful playing accordion and singing. In London worked at Fortnum and Mason for 3 years. Played in pubs at night at the weekend. Then worked for The Bedlams, musical clowns: travelled the country including Scotland. Other performers included Harry Corbett and Sooty. Worked with The Bedlams for more than 3 years, but then Selective Employment Tax caused drastic cut in demand for entertainment.

[Ends 30:29]

MonteHennegin2a

00:00 Description of final performance by The Bedlams at Park Lane Hotel. MH’s theatrical partner left for Montreal. Took job in Maples while continuing to play in pubs in evenings. Happily made redundant. Got work in Alpine Bier Keller in Finsbury for two nights a week, then work in pubs and clubs. Bought an auto home, lived in that for sixteen years, travelling around, playing mainly in restaurants along the south coast. Regular bookings, was working most nights.

03:13 Meeting men at ‘sex stations’: lorry drivers who were met in toilets and came back to the van. About MH’s earlier relationship with Colin in London, where he worked, how they met, lived together five years. Went to operas and became well known: every week in same seats. Colin moved in because needed place to stay: started their physical relationship. Always slept together: landlady probably guessed. At Fortnum and Mason practically all the salesmen were gay, except one straight.

07:41 Describes pubs he and Colin frequented in Camden Passage. Straights knew MH and Colin lived together. Most nights MH was playing pubs. Colin gave MH ring in 1963 that he has worn ever since. When MH joined Bedlams, Colin met Jimmy and they stayed over at MH’s until found their own place. Colin had been engaged to Sheila (MH had introduced them), but all the straights laughed at the idea. MH not concerned about Sheila, saw it as a front, but upset about Jimmy. As artists got on each other’s nerves occasionally, but was happy period: Colin was the only one he really stuck with. MH had other friendships that weren’t necessarily sexual, and later on sex was never a big drive. About drinking crowd around Camden Passage early 1960s, how they would all come back to MH’s. About age difference between MH and Colin, who was 13 years younger (born 1936): in 1963 Monte 40 and Colin 27, seemed big gap.

14:17 Pubs and clubs: the A&R club (Artists and Repertory), Tin Pan Alley, the Salisbury, the George. Met Michael Carr (wrote ‘South of the Border’ song.) Story about boxer Freddie Mills. About cinemas: two called the Bioscope were pick up places for gay men. At one in Cape Town, picked up someone who was concerned MH might be a policeman; met 4-5 times afterwards. At one in Durban, met a gay man who had been expected to marry the girl next door, married her on return from the war: got drunk if thought wife wanted sex. ‘There are all these different forms of life amongst ourselves, different people: sexuality is not straightforward to anybody.’

19:27 Lost driving licence as over the legal alcohol limit one night, so no van and no work. Married couple who ran Netherton Hotel in Weymouth invited MH to come to Scotland: the husband Tom Craig was from Glasgow. They were going to start a riding stables in Dunbar, but changed to Stewarton. So MH came to Scotland in 1988 aged 65, and settled in Stewarton. Played in pubs and for old people. Accordion is getting a bit heavy round his neck.

23:19 Through Pink Paper found gay pubs in Glasgow: Austin’s, the Wellington, Squire’s, how he met gay crowd in these pubs, many still knows today. Mentions going to concerts at RSAMD. Explains likes and dislikes of various pubs: preferred friendly Austin’s to cruisy Wellington. Café at LGBT Centre not friendly. Did not find Delmonicas friendly. Age makes a difference.

27:37 In Stewarton most don’t know about MH’s sexuality. Straight friends Gordon

and Eric know: MH had tackled Eric on homophobic remarks, and had been asked outright by Gordon. Gordon is protective of MH. Met them through music. Many know him by nickname: Squire. People friendly in Stewarton but no close friendships. Reasons why never moved to Glasgow: would be going to shows all the time and couldn’t afford it. Stewarton is just far enough away. Now the journey is a bit heavy.

[Ends 31:23]

MonteHennegin2b

00:00 No contact with family in South Africa or elsewhere. Continues about friendship, emotional support: Eric and Gordon are friends, sees about once a week. About last significant relationship with man called Jack, describes how they met, how Jack came out to MH as bisexual, stayed with MH once a week for four years. Jack died last year around sixty, 20 years younger than MH. Describes their relationship, more a partner of convenience for each. Sources of support: Eric and Gordon. MH occasionally still plays with Gordon in old people’s homes: MH popular as he knows their music.

05:43 Eric and Gordon both straight. There must be gays in Stewarton, but only knew of two, one left and one committed suicide. Explains feelings about LGBT folk in Glasgow, how he feels accepted but no closeness to anyone. Took two poems along to LGBT Centre. MH seen as eccentric in Stewarton. Doesn’t reveal his sexuality to official bodies, member of the VIA [Visually Impaired Ayrshire group]: his sexuality is a private matter. ‘I’m just me – a human being.’ Some women friends from the time he worked in restaurants in England keep in touch, and some know he’s gay, but not discussed: ‘if they ask me I tell them: I’ve never hidden it’.

11:11 Visibility of gays: didn’t like or want to be like those who were over the top or over-effeminate. Sponsored to become member of Equity. He knew many personalities in show business: sexuality not discussed. Has always taken it for granted: those who are like it are, those not are not; but we all mixed. Film stars and actors who were thought to be gay. MH never liked feminine men so not tempted to be like them. Yet dressed up in sister’s clothes when young boy, pranced around and laughed.

17:33 Never had religious inclinations: his own family were Baptist, but father lost faith. MH went to Dutch Reformed Church school, attended congregational church and learnt to play the three manual organ. About experience of boarding school, majority Afrikaans, about his bilingualism.

22:29 Class divisions defined by skin colour in South Africa. During the war, South African forces would not accept segregation between officers and other ranks: example of Cairo, other ranks entering places deemed out of bounds. MH feels unable to have sexual relationship with non-white because of way he was brought up. He had lots of black friends: gives examples from 1950s. Segregation in South Africa and Britain: official and unofficial. In 1960s in London, the pubs were as much whites only as in South Africa, only not overtly. Needs more than legal change: change to come from people themselves. Story about MH and coloured South African in

London club being asked about belief in apartheid. Being gay not visible in same way as skin colour so doesn’t have same impact.

[Ends 31:04]

MonteHennegin3a

00:00 Reflections on gay rights movement: feels any kind of couple in long-term partnership should have rights of a spouse. MH was member of Homosexual Law Reform Society in North London. MH and Colin were members of Islington art group. No memory of going on marches, but was on recent gay pride march in Glasgow. People who want to hide their sexuality are not being true to themselves.

03:41 Some people hinted something going on between MH and Jack: Jack annoyed, but for MH if they want to think that, let them think. Jack came to the flat late at night when nobody was around: Jack was worried, but MH didn’t care. When something was suggested in pub about MH being gay, Jack distanced himself, but MH wasn’t worried. You have to be true to yourself if you can.

05:08 MH now impotent caused by his diabetes, also has prostate cancer and heart condition. Sex has never been a big drive for MH, and its loss is not a worry: it’s not an imperative. MH aged 77 years when ceased being sexually active with Jack. About adjusting with age, still thinks about making love, including physically: difference between love and sex. No more opportunities, not attractive to other men nowadays.

09:22 Hopes for the future: do a lot more writing, do a bit of music. About leaving his paintings and literary work to LGBT [Centre] Glasgow. Gordon will be executor.

11:36 About early days of his involvement with LGBT Centre, 11 Dixon Street. Originally thought it was Stonewall: speaks of Stonewall chief executive Angela Mason and founder [Michael] Cashman, known in show business, and another founder Matthew Parris, born in South Africa. The reason for going to the LGBT Centre was that MH wanted to ‘get in with my own people again’.

13:42 Again on Glasgow pubs in late 1980s. Difference between gay pubs in Glasgow and South Africa: in Glasgow set aside as gay, in South Africa met people in mixed atmosphere. In a Glasgow gay pub like Squires and Austin’s, MH may be asked if he knows it’s gay: his persona isn’t a gay one, usually shocks people when he tells them. Most friends know is gay, except Tina, proprietress of Edelweiss where he played, who is a Christian: MH told her he wasn’t a Christian. Again on how first met Gordon and Eric. Use to know a couple of gays in Kilmarnock. Never met gays in Stewarton, so comes to Glasgow to meet his own people.

[Ends 20:04]