Summary of Oral History Interview by OurStory Scotland

Interviewee: Lynne

Interviewer: Jaime Valentine (and occasional questions from friend)

Place of Interview: Dollar, Clackmannanshire

Date of Interview: 12 November 2004

Summariser: Jenny Simmons

Accession no. AA002

Lynne1a

00:00 Lynne [L] born Gourock 1959. Moved to Helensburgh, aged 11. Went to university in 1976. Moved into student house 1978. Psychology course at Glasgow. Postgraduate course in Educational Psychology, aged 20, fell in love with another woman, Ruth. L had gone out with boys but not particularly interested. Ruth was flatmate for first year, became roommate. L didn’t consider herself a lesbian. Heart-broken when Ruth graduated. L’s close relationships had all been with women, but assumed she would fall in love with a boy, get married and have children. Knew that her relationship with Ruth was different, like ‘very best friend’.

06:12 Wrote about it in diary. Mentioned it to mother, but negative reaction. Mother suffered from depression. Mother’s reaction was reason she couldn’t tell other people: couldn’t talk about feelings for Ruth in case thought to be lesbian, as mother warned. Wasn’t interested in Ruth’s body, more about being soulmates. Didn’t know gay people. Stereotypical lesbian wanted to get into bed with women all the time. Remember getting teased at school and being called a lesbian because she went into a toilet with her friend Fiona, aged 12. Absence of discussion/information about lesbians, lack of representations on TV.

15:41 After university, still in love with Ruth, but had to hide it. Moved to London for 4 years, fell in love with another woman, unreciprocated, common interest in horses. This London colleague was moving away, knew L was upset and told Lorna, a lesbian. Lorna supported L, did not refer directly to lesbian feelings, but took L to women’s disco. L was so besotted that she wasn’t interested in other women, thought Lorna had wrong idea: L didn’t see herself as a lesbian. Moved back to Scotland in 1990. Didn’t think of herself as a lesbian until 1993: realised that could empathise with Lorna’s loss at break-up with partner.

23:46 Came out February 1994. Wrote to the London colleague and her male partner. Came out to sister Margaret. Mainly positive reaction. Phoned Lavender Line [Lesbian Line who produced a Lavender Listing for Glasgow]. Arranged to meet people in the Bay Tree Café, vegan, popular place with lesbians. Stayed in Sandbank in Argyll. Talks about difference between London and Argyll.

[Ends 31:29]

Lynne1b

00:00 Worked as school librarian in only secondary school in Cowal Peninsula:

close-knit community, couldn’t be out. Wanted to be out, so important to move. Job came up at Stirling University, Faculty of Human Sciences. In Autumn 1994 had joined Lilidots, a lesbian hill-walking group. Started new job February 1995. Equal Opportunities policy – felt she could be more open. Found out about Forth Friend, an organisation for lesbians and gays in Forth Valley. Phoned their phoneline, talked to Pam, who invited L to film at Macrobert Arts Centre to meet other lesbians. Came out at work. Involved in Union, as a LGB Rep (representative for lesbian, gay and bisexual members) – visibly out. No bad reactions. No partner meant it was more difficult to come out. Involved in social side of Forth Friend, then trained in basic counselling to help with Forth Friend phoneline.

08:16 Lilidots best way to meet other like-minded people. Made very good friends. Not fallen in love with another lesbian: L would not allow herself to fall in love with lesbian who already had partner. Good to shared experiences in Lilidots. 10th anniversary of group around 1995. Started as feminist group but became lesbian. Name: ‘Dot’ – ‘Are you a friend of Dorothy?’ and ‘Lili’ – ‘Does she drink lilac wine?’ a saying in the Dundee area. High emphasis on car-sharing and sharing of costs to involve all.

15:30 Rarely met lesbians outside of contact/support organisations. Before moving to London, shared flat in Edinburgh with two gay men. One had written an article in a Scottish gay magazine, and was impressed that L had the nerve to go and buy it. Moved to Newcastle for a short time with five flatmates, one was lesbian, shared interest in cats. Felt comfortable having lesbian and gay flatmates. A flatmate in London was called ‘faghag’, friendly with gay men. Would have liked to go on Pride march, though didn’t recognise self as lesbian.

21:19 Talks about shared interests of Lilidots. Many had taken long time to realise were lesbian. Many had been tomboys: L called tomboy when young and liked that. Had close female heterosexual friends. Harder after coming out – friends having the wrong idea about relationship. Don’t share same experiences. Some friends are traditional Scottish, wary of hugging: L has become a huggy person – going to London helped.

27:11 Coming out to family – brother in 1997 – he was fine and wanted to find L a partner, e.g. through advertising. L told Aunt Margaret before parents: this aunt kept asking L about boyfriends, and L came out to her while walking the dog, L’s favourite part of Christmas, which she hated. L wanted to come out to parents, but wary because of mother’s previous reaction and mental health problems. Told them late 1990s.

[Ends 31:31]

Lynne2a

00:00 Parents did not say much in response to L’s coming out. Father knew due to visits to house, would see Pink Paper, Out Scotland etc. They didn’t seem to want to talk about it. Mother got seriously ill, and may not remember L’s coming out. Mother didn’t want family to know: difficult for L who doesn’t want to be hidden.

02:07 L diagnosed with breast cancer, and planning funeral. Has been to lesbian and gay funerals and no mention of sexuality. Wants this to be acknowledged at her own funeral, which will be Humanist and will include her lesbian life. Would like to tell remaining family members. Some have traditional/Christian views and difficult to come out to them.

05:42 Brought up Church of Scotland – never felt a Christian. Passionate about animals and animal rights. Talks about religion’s lack of sympathy for animal rights. Ruth was Jewish. Read more about Judaism and went to Garnet Hill Synagogue. Thought about converting. Attended Hebrew class in London. Some aspects of Judaism were against L’s beliefs, especially about animals; also wanted to live in rural Scotland. When came out and admitted feelings for Ruth, L realised those feelings were the source of interest in Judaism. Not really religious and happier when mutual acceptance rather than ‘one true way’. Never liked Christianity, which seemed to be worshipping one man. No religious guilt in relation to sexuality; disliked idea of judgmental god. Attitudes to homosexuality in Judaism: contrast between liberal Judaism and negative passages in Bible.

17:13 Animals have been her strongest passion. Hated the idea of animals being killed. Visit to butchers aged 4. Turned vegetarian aged 16. Felt apart from society which condones killing of animals. Article about animal rights encouraged her to read more. Felt alone as vegetarian supporter of animal rights and lesbian – also alone in both those groups. Difficult to find partner due to uncompromising views. Support from animals and from close friends, mainly women. Shared views with sister, but grew apart later on, though recently got closer with sister and brother.

26:52 Some experience of discrimination: teasing at school, name-calling when queuing for lesbian disco and when with other woman on train. Worst discrimination consisted of attitudes of society that meant she hid her identity from herself: made invisible to herself. Videos and DVDs mainly based around heterosexuality. Little about homosexuals, and often negative. Have to seek out lesbian or gay movies. Example of Captain Corelli’s Mandolin: book includes gay man, film doesn’t.

[Ends 31:30]

Lynne2b

00:00 L could find herself reflected in books. Even working in school library found the odd story with lesbian themes, that were not supposed to be on open shelves. Joined Glasgow Women’s Library [GWL] with its Lesbian Archive. They had books on lesbian themes. Complicated journey to come in to GWL from Argyll. Novels and factual books – took them back in brown paper bag to Dunoon. Bought books, but could not have lesbian themed books on show while working in a school, so donated them to GWL. Went to shops like West and Wilde bookshop in Edinburgh; more recently Waterstones, though more awkward browsing and buying in general bookshop. Stirling University Library had books on lesbian and gay themes from academic perspective. Identified with KD Lang, bought music written/performed by lesbians. Shock when see others’ choices of books and films, and so little about

yourself in them.

04:23 Health Service – wary of coming out. May be recorded and viewed by any number of people. Vulnerable as patient. Because has not had partner, no need to come out. Came out to Macmillan nurse from Strathcarron Hospice when talking about funeral. Change in nurse – need to come out again. Facing possibility of moving into a hospice, sexuality is part of who she is and should be known. With each new person have to decide whether to come out or not. If living with another woman, much easier to say. Often called Mrs, when wants to be called Ms. Presumed heterosexuality and marriage.

10:22 Other words to use include gay – easier to use. More power in word lesbian. Hate word homosexual – medical term. Relationship is about love and romance, not just sexuality. Wants laws and attitudes to change. Does not just want tolerance and acceptance, but love between men and love between women to be celebrated. Should be treated as normal and supported. True equality, not grudging acceptance.

[Ends 12:53]