00:00 Continues about naivety. Talks about sectarianism in West of Scotland and Northern Ireland: bigger problem than being gay. In Northern Ireland they were not interested in gay issues: religion, race, women and disability came before gay issues, which they didn’t want to top the agenda. People want to know more there, but naivety in the fire service and union, where they were scared about talking about the issues.

04:35 Fire service has moved on dramatically. At settling-in course in Cowcaddens, had met a trainer, Alastair. Later met Alastair in Bennets. Built up a friendship. Stories told to him by Alastair about fire service. SB knew he wasn’t alone. SB was advised to keep it quiet. Worried about being sacked. Fire service could have sacked him for being gay, until new legislation brought in 2003, but Union would have protected him.

10:10 Banter among colleagues, people would be picked on, Catholic firefighter had more hassle than gay firefighter. SB very much part of the watch, including its name-calling. Defence was to give as good as you got, but now regrets this. Seen as weakness if you don’t react. SB had the protection of a few others: good friends with John, kick-boxing champion. Socialising outside work, golf.

13:58 SB learnt to avoid downtime where conversation would extend beyond limits with which he was comfortable. When conversation slows down, banter starts: continues in fire engine. Banter on the way back from incidents: claustrophobic in back of fire engine. Became a driver in 1996, more control: on way back, may stop to look at men, rather than girls, to wind up colleagues. The watch went out on gay scene. SB took part in banter, mentality of undermining people: now regrets it. Happened to everyone, for any reason - examples. It is the culture that exists among firefighters. The policies don’t accept discrimination but the militaristic culture continues. Waiting for a fire call, trapped in station.

23:52 Night out with the watch in Glasgow, went to Bennets. They were happy with the night, and each had stories about being approached by men. Story about colleague being confused about gay men queuing for cubicles. On odd occasions afterwards colleagues would visit gay bars with SB. SB happy to go to any bar: didn’t have to be gay bar, and anyway didn’t feel comfortable with them being there in gay bar, would rather just go somewhere local with them.

28:30 Gay men have stereotype of firefighters – impressed by job. This has its benefits: SB has used it to his advantage. Refused doing a firefighters’ calendar, too tacky.